From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sun, Mar 3, 2002
This morning I got a message from the "Brain Food"
list that said its
operator was shutting it down, as he feels that his
warnings have already
come to pass. Namely:
>Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:34:02 -1000
> From: "Jay Hanson"
>Subject: Final Message
>
>C.J. Campbell thinks there is a good chance that
global oil production
>peaked in late 2000 [1]. If Campbell is right (an
I believe he is), then
>global economic growth (every country simultaneously)
is over --
>permanently.
>
>This will be my final BRAIN FOOD message. I hope
you have enjoyed them over
>the years. But before I retire completely from
these mailing lists, I have
>one last itch to scratch: human behavior.
>
<snip some stuff about a new short-term list he's
creating.>
>
>Good luck and goodbye,
>Jay
>-------------------------------------------
>[1] World: Oil And Gas Industry - Peak Oil: an Outlook
on Crude Oil
>Depletion - C.J.Campbell - Revised February 2002
>http://www.mbendi.co.za/indy/oilg/p0070.htm
>
>"The rig count over the last 12 years has reached
bottom. This is not
>because of low oil price. The oil companies are
not going to keep rigs
>employed to drill dry holes. They know it but are
unable ... to admit it.
>The great merger mania is nothing more than a scaling
down of a dying
>industry in recognition that 90% of global conventional
oil has already been
>found." (Goldman Sachs -- August 1999)
>
>[2] The peak in global oil production will lead
to a human dieoff similar to
>the reindeer dieoff on St. Matthew Island. See http://dieoff.com/page80.htm
Okay, now if that weren't bad enough, the reason I was
checking my email so
early was that I couldn't go back to sleep after waking
from a dream in
which I was on my way to work and as I crested the hill,
I saw Chicago in
ruins. Roads collapsed, buildings burned out or fallen.
(Possibly a small
nuke in the heart of downtown.) I'm not sure if it was
a dream or a vision,
because I'm not sure if I was awake or not before I
sat up and snapped out
of it. Usually I know I'm dreaming, this time I didn't.
Maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part. Don't
know. But I sure hope
those Xists find the right dimension Real Soon Now.
The Pinks have just
about finished us all off, and they don't even know
it.
St. Marc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
On 3/4/02 6:15 PM, in article 3c840d62.12924595@news.mindspring.com,
"yard
man" <Honk.blrpHOOOARGHH@excuseMe.com> wrote:
>> well duh.
>
> well, duh, wut, joe?
>
> there's enough oil for us to drown ourselves in
overgrown oceans. Just
> gets more and more expensive to get it out.
>
>
> no troll. Argue with me on this one, and yer toast.
Are you talking about coal/oil conversions and oil shale
and oil sands and
like that? I hope not, because if you are, I laugh at
you, ha ha I laugh. If
it takes more energy to get it *out* than you get out
*of* it, it ain't no
consequence.
Otherwise, do go on.
St. Marc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
In article <3c822daa$0$35575$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com>,
St. Marc the
Perpetually Amused <disciple@templeoferis.org>
wrote:
> Maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part.
Don't know. But I sure hope
> those Xists find the right dimension Real Soon
Now. The Pinks have just
> about finished us all off, and they don't even
know it.
By the time that oil supplies taper off, we'll be well
underway towards
converting to a post-oil economy. Every doomsday nut
underestimates the
humans, and thinks that SOMETHING they'll do will destroy
the world.
Nah, it'll TAKE something like the Xists, or the Yacatisma,
to really
do in the ecosystem; but that doesn't the hairless chimps
won't TRY.
Her Ladyship Lilith
--
\m/ -=8=- http://lilith.foolspress.com/ -=8=- \m/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: HellPope Huey <hellpopehuey@subspamgeenyus.com>
In article <040320021934470720%lilith@ZubJenius.com>,
Her says...
>Nah, it'll TAKE something like the Xists, or the
Yacatisma, to really
>do in the ecosystem; but that doesn't the hairless
chimps won't TRY.
Yeah, I second that. Somebody will invent a car that
runs on corn oil and then
a poorly-engineered, DNA-spliced strain of corn will
lead to a blight that
screws THAT up and THEN someone will invent a car that
runs on our own shit and
once we have to squat and take a dump over the fuel
tank every morning to get to
work, the humility will lead to some REAL stability.
Hard to be TOO arrogant
with yer pants around yer ankles, PRAISE "Bob!"
HellPope Huey, hellpopehuey@subgenius.com
Duke of URL
"You're only another poor fool...
you did it because you and the rest of the world
believed something about you that wasn't true...
it gave you form and affected what you became...
it ALL matters. Every moment.
We just don't see it."
- "Universe X"
"The amplitude of a man's swagger
is inversely proportional
to the quality and quantity
of his accomplishments."
-John Trubee
"I like the chasing, but I LOVE the pounding!"
- "CatD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Arbane the Terrible <arbane@attbi.com>
Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench wrote:
> By the time that oil supplies taper off, we'll
be well underway towards
> converting to a post-oil economy.
I hope to Goddess you're right, but I have difficulty
imagining the Big Oil
Companies are _physically capable_ of thinking any further
than the next
quarterly stock report.
I hope you've been properly propitiating those DinoSouls
you warned me
about, all those years ago...
--
"Remember, the plural of 'moron' is 'focus group'."
-- James A. Wolf
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Honk.blrpHOOOARGHH@excuseMe.com (yard man)
On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 04:02:03 GMT, joecosby@mindspring.com
(Joe Cosby)
wrote:
>Honk.blrpHOOOARGHH@excuseMe.com (yard man) hunched
over a computer,
>typing feverishly;
>thunder crashed, Honk.blrpHOOOARGHH@excuseMe.com
(yard man) laughed
>madly, then wrote:
>
>>no troll. Argue with me on this one, and yer
toast.
>
>You wouldn't know a no troll if it came up and didn't
bite you on your
>ass.
you better lay off the rabbit turd tarts, too.
gettin' too smart for me!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bryan Maloney <bjm10@cornell.edu>
HellPope Huey <hellpopehuey@subspamgeenyus.com>
wrote in
news:a61iur06mr@drn.newsguy.com:
> Yeah, I second that. Somebody will invent a car
that runs on corn oil
Already exists--just not market-viable at the moment.
Although it looks to
be more economically efficient to bring silage-to-hydrocarbons
biotech into
industrial scale, instead (more old technology will
still be usable).
There is a lot (as in tons and tons) of stalk material
that right now
essentially gets pulled up and tossed into holes in
the ground.
> and THEN someone will invent a car that runs on
> our own shit and once we have to squat and take
a dump over the fuel
> tank every morning to get to work, the humility
will lead to some REAL
> stability. Hard to be TOO arrogant with yer pants
around yer ankles,
I foresee shit-into-the-gascan contests. I foresee
the ability to crap
massive amounts becoming a source of great public pride.
I see people
publically bragging about their output ability. There
is no way to rein in
human arrogance. Indeed, all social progress and regress
are due to this
trait. The humble adapt themselves to their surroundings.
The arrogant
change the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
"yard man" <Honk.blrpHOOOARGHH@excuseMe.com>
wrote in message
news:3c84d099.20028043@news.mindspring.com...
> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:11:41 -0600, "St. Marc
the Perpetually Amused"
> <disciple@templeoferis.org> wrote:
>
> >Are you talking about coal/oil conversions
and oil shale and oil sands and
> >like that? I hope not, because if you are,
I laugh at you, ha ha I laugh. If
> >it takes more energy to get it *out* than you
get out *of* it, it ain't no
> >consequence.
>
> before offering a suitable situ retort to this,
tell me where you are
> finding this information, I mean, what you are
basing your contention
> that it would take more energy to get it out than
could be got out of
> them sands and things.
All the papers, reports, and links to papers and reports
you could ever
want, and more, here:
http://www.dieoff.org
And don't forget about the jillions of barrels of *water*
it takes to run
most of these crazy schemes as well. The Buffalo Creek
disaster will look
like something Stang has in his backyard when you see
the retention pond
it'll take to process any real amount of the Alberta
oil sands, f'r
instance.
> Not saying it's not true. Not saying that was what
I was talking
> about. Put all that on hold. Now I just want to
be as smart as you,
> and all.
May "Bob" have mercy on you if *that's* the
limit of your aspirations.
There's Slacking Off, and then there's just plain LAZY.
St. Marc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
"Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench" <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
wrote in message
news:040320021934470720%lilith@ZubJenius.com...
> By the time that oil supplies taper off,
Butbutbutbutbut, see, that's the point of the message...
they've *already*
begun to taper off...
>we'll be well underway towards
> converting to a post-oil economy.
Doesn't look like we're on our way to converting to
anything, other than
building a whole lotta natural-gas fired powerplants
that we ain't gonna
have the gas to run, either.
> Every doomsday nut underestimates the
> humans, and thinks that SOMETHING they'll do will
destroy the world.
> Nah, it'll TAKE something like the Xists, or the
Yacatisma, to really
> do in the ecosystem; but that doesn't the hairless
chimps won't TRY.
Ecosystem, schmecosystem. I'm just talking about the
collapse of Western
civilization. There'll be plenty of Jimson weed and
body lice for all. We
don't even have to run *out* of oil. The mere fact that
we cannot increase
production (and we can't - Hubbert's Law) is sufficient.
Our economies run
on growth. No increased oil production, no net growth.
Finis.
Although because of large (relatively speaking) domestic
reserves of oil,
gas and coal, as well as military power, the US will
probably avoid collapse
quite a little bit longer than most other countries.
I might live to see it.
St. Marc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>
In article <a61iur06mr@drn.newsguy.com>, HellPope
Huey
<hellpopehuey@subspamgeenyus.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I second that. Somebody will invent a car
that runs on corn oil and
> then a poorly-engineered, DNA-spliced strain of
corn will lead to a blight that
> screws THAT up and THEN someone will invent a car
that runs on our own shit
> and once we have to squat and take a dump over
the fuel tank every morning to get
> to work, the humility will lead to some REAL stability.
Hard to be TOO arrogant
> with yer pants around yer ankles, PRAISE "Bob!"
I think this is a pretty good Future Prediction (of
the "If X-Day
Doesn't Come" kind)... thousands of years of Rube
Goldberg type
jerry-rigging, wherein the Earthmen have to come up
with one ludicrous
cure after another for the diseases caused by the previous
cures. I
still have a certain bleak faith in Mystery Science
that this can
happen. If the humans can hold out for another 10,000
years they
probably WILL achieve some halfway decent Utopia. IF!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
And if they don't last through that 10,000 years of
learning the hard
way, well, you won't hear anybody complain, now will
you?
That's why I say Don't Kill Yourself, Let "Bob"
Do It For You. He's
going to anyway, why hurry the process.
HOT PASTRAMI SANDWICH.
--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath
of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected
P.O. Box 181417, Cleveland, OH 44118 (fax 216-320-9528)
A subsidiary of:
The SubGenius Foundation, Inc. / P.O. Box 140306, Dallas,
TX 75214
SubSITE: http://www.subgenius.com PRABOB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Reverend DJ Epoch <nunyabiz@noway.com>
"Rev. Ivan Stang" wrote:
> In article <a62ih2$pig$9@news01.cit.cornell.edu>,
Bryan Maloney
> <bjm10@cornell.edu> wrote:
> > I foresee shit-into-the-gascan contests.
I foresee the ability to crap
> > massive amounts becoming a source of great
public pride. I see people
> > publically bragging about their output ability.
>
> "You'll all be running your cars on roach
crap by the year 2005!!" --
> J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, 2001
"2005"???? Alright, I have an ISSUE to settle with MISTER J.R. "Bob" Dobbs!
WHERE ARE THE DAMNED SAUCERS??? Is Brushwood nothing
more than an excuse for an
orgy? Or are the Sex Goddesses ever gonna get their
multi-tittied bods DOWN HERE
to load up the card carrying members before JHVH-1 puts
this mudball out of it's
misery?? Dammit, I bet the X-ists are nothing more than
a bunch of Mexican extras
in a bastardiszed version of an X-Files episode.
We have the Shyster General John Asscrunt making like
he's a contestant on the
Gong Show, Israel and the Palestinians are playing a
game of "Catch the grenade",
Shrub is looking to go kick over Saddam's sand castle
after testing all our
high-tech munitions on a bunch of holes in the mountais
of Afghanistan, Cheney is
attempting to hide the piictures of the suitcase-load
of money Enron trucked
over, and the Canadians are threatening to invade alt.slack!
Tonya Harding and
Paula Jones are gonna try to rearrainged each other's
noses wrasslin' before The
Brady Bunch vs. The Partridge Family in a televised
Texas chainsaw-style caged
ring deathmatch. (Well, almost, but we can dream) Traffic
is worse, taxes are
going UP where I live to pay for the idiots' mistakes
of the PAST THREE CITY
ADMINISTRATIONS!! It's entirely possible the bodies
I sent off to be cremated are
laying in pieces in some North Gawgia po'bucker's barn
AND *NOW* THE ACHES AND
PAINS OF MIDDLE-AGE START NOT EVEN TWO WEEKS AFTER MY
BIRTHDAY!
Dammit, growing old is NOT for wimps!
...at least I can STILL shit in a gascan without herniating
myself.
___________
Reverend DJ Epoch
The Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Motion Cathedral,
Carwash and Dancehall
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lyonderboy666@hotmail.com (Anti Pope Lupus of
SI)
joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby) wrote...
> You wouldn't know a no troll if it came up and
didn't bite you on your
> ass.
Great! Now *I* just had a disturbing morning.
-APLY
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby)
joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby) hunched over a computer,
typing
feverishly;
thunder crashed, joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby)
laughed madly,
then wrote:
>Bryan Maloney <bjm10@cornell.edu> hunched
over a computer, typing
>feverishly;
>thunder crashed, Bryan Maloney <bjm10@cornell.edu>
laughed madly, then
>wrote:
>
>>"St. Marc the Perpetually Amused"
<disciple@templeoferis.org> wrote in
>>news:iA4h8.37269$ZC3.2934824@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
>>
>>> "Bryan Maloney" <bjm10@cornell.edu>
wrote in message
>>> news:a62i91$pig$8@news01.cit.cornell.edu...
>>>> This guy greatly underestimates the
power of greed. There's a lot of
>>>> available carbon around and a lot of
biomass that can be used to fix
>>>> it into the arrangements we want.
There are veritable universes of
>>>> pollution and greenhousery that have
yet to be exploited!
>>>
>>> See previous posts. Those "sources"
are net energy sinks. Good idea, it
>>> just won't work.
>>
>>Then get a gun and kill yourself, since you're
already doomed.
>
>HEAR HEAR
>
>What good is all this DEFEATIST talk?
>
>If there isn't a ready solution to a problem, IGNORE
it and hope it
>goes away.
>
>That's the spirit!
"Keep marching, you lemmings! We're almost there!"
"But sergeant, I see a cliff ahead!"
"SO WHAT?"
"We'll fall off and die"
"Well then why don't you get a gun and kill yourself,
since you're
already doomed!"
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.home.mindspring.com
The subgenius must have slack!
Sig by Kookie Jar 5.98d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
"Bryan Maloney" <bjm10@cornell.edu>
wrote in message
news:a62ljq$pig$16@news01.cit.cornell.edu...
> Then get a gun and kill yourself, since you're
already doomed.
What, and miss the fun? Oh, no. Been looking forward
to playing Mad Max for
YEARS. Already have some of the raping and pillaging
sites pencilled in.
But I think you may be misunderstanding my point. I'm
not being sad and
depressed here. It's not sad. It's not happy. It's just
the way it is. Might
as well face it and get ready, and if it doesn't happen,
anything else is a
pleasant surprise.
St. Marc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: fossil_1984@hotmail.com (The Rev. Dr. Lt. Chaos
Israel)
When we run out of oil--anywhere between 50 and 500
years from now,
and despite all the yelling & screaming, really,
*no one knows*--when
we run out of oil, all the grain rotting in the silos
in America,
Canada, Argentina, and the Ukraine, will be converted
into fuel
alcohol.
'Bout 5 years before we acually get a workable system
for fusion
power.
Sorry, we're not going to run out of energy anytime
soon.
Anymore apocolyptic balloons you want me to pop?
--
The Rev. Dr. Lt. Chaos Israel.
He who controls the COFFEE, controls the universe.
"There is no Sanctuary!"
--Logan-5, movie version.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: prostata@bronze.coil.com (The Stinking Bishop
Prostata Cantata MP)
In article <3c822daa$0$35575$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com>,
St. Marc the Perpetually Amused <disciple@templeoferis.org>
wrote:
>>"The rig count over the last 12 years has
reached bottom. This is not
>>because of low oil price. The oil companies
are not going to keep rigs
>>employed to drill dry holes. They know it but
are unable ... to admit it.
>>The great merger mania is nothing more than
a scaling down of a dying
>>industry in recognition that 90% of global conventional
oil has already been
>>found." (Goldman Sachs -- August 1999)
what an amazingly oversimplified and innacurate
view.
--
-------
I have burped, farted, and sneezed at the same time,
and I am still
alive. --Dan Povenmire, Los Angeles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: A Disturbing Morning
From: prostata@bronze.coil.com (The Stinking Bishop
Prostata Cantata MP)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Tue, Mar 5, 2002 12:47 PM
Message-ID: <oa036a.e4c2.ln@news.concourse.com>
In article <3c841d6a$0$35568$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com>,
St. Marc the Perpetually Amused <disciple@templeoferis.org>
wrote:
>On 3/4/02 6:15 PM, in article 3c840d62.12924595@news.mindspring.com,
"yard
>man" <Honk.blrpHOOOARGHH@excuseMe.com>
wrote:
>> there's enough oil for us to drown ourselves
in overgrown oceans. Just
>> gets more and more expensive to get it out.
>
>Are you talking about coal/oil conversions and oil
shale and oil sands and
>like that? I hope not, because if you are, I laugh
at you, ha ha I laugh. If
>it takes more energy to get it *out* than you get
out *of* it, it ain't no
>consequence.
no, he's not.
And actually, he's right. There are lots of oil fields
that have lots of
oil in them, but the break even point on extraction
controls what is
pumped.
--
-------
I have burped, farted, and sneezed at the same time,
and I am still
alive. --Dan Povenmire, Los Angeles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
In article <a61iur06mr@drn.newsguy.com>, HellPope
Huey
<hellpopehuey@subspamgeenyus.com> wrote:
> a poorly-engineered, DNA-spliced strain of corn
will lead to a blight
This might sound funny, but already ancient, native
varieties of
Mexican corn are showing up with strands of modified
DNA in 'em. Seems
they're getting pollen from modified crops. This has
a lot of
researchers worried that corn will be further modified
unintentionally,
which will make it harder to preserve all of the thousands
of species
of corn that grow in the region. Nothing stimulates
one's hate gland
than realizing that humans are as hapless as "Bob"
but without the oh
so vital LUCK.
Her Ladyship Lilith
--
\m/ -=8=- http://lilith.foolspress.com/ -=8=- \m/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
In article <050320021132519025%stang@subgenius.com>,
Rev. Ivan Stang
<stang@subgenius.com> wrote:
> "You'll all be running your cars on roach
crap by the year 2005!!" --
> J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, 2001
So when will be have cars that can run on ROACHES? We
sure seem to got
plenty. And FRUIT FLIES! Sure they're tiny, but there's
LOTS of 'em!
Gives new meaning to the term "Love Bug"....
Her Ladyship Lilith
--
\m/ -=8=- http://lilith.foolspress.com/ -=8=- \m/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
In article <5T%g8.4086$Yn4.7161@rwcrnsc53>, Arbane
the Terrible
<arbane@attbi.com> wrote:
> Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench wrote:
>
> > By the time that oil supplies taper off, we'll
be well underway towards
> > converting to a post-oil economy.
>
> I hope to Goddess you're right, but I have difficulty
imagining the Big Oil
> Companies are _physically capable_ of thinking
any further than the next
> quarterly stock report.
No, it's just that their strategy is: Keep On Pumpin'.
We Can Always
Diversify Later.
> I hope you've been properly propitiating those
DinoSouls you warned me
> about, all those years ago...
Shit, that was the FIRST to run out. The last Dinosoul
was released by
accident in Siberia and promptly ate three oil rigs
before the
authorities could catch it in an electromagnetic bubble.
The rest of
'em are getting bored, actually--all that rampaging
gets a bit
repetitive after a few years. Even T.Rex spent more
time rubbing its
cloaca against giant horsehead ferns than terrorizing
smaller animals.
You should see their idea of kinky sex, it's better
than anything Ray
Harryhausen could have possibly imagined.
Her Ladyship Lilith
--
\m/ -=8=- http://lilith.foolspress.com/ -=8=- \m/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
In article <3c84dedd.89491268@News.CIS.DFN.DE>,
Joe Cosby
<joecosby@mindspring.com> wrote:
> If there isn't a ready solution to a problem, IGNORE
it and hope it
> goes away.
>
> That's the spirit!
I suspect that Bryan is simply annoyed at Marc's poo-pooing
every idea
that has involved converting biomass or any other source
of carbon into
fuel.
So the answer is to get away from goddamned carbon based
fuels, except
Pinks. I'd drive a car that ran on Pinks.
Actually, I want a FLYING SAUCER that runs on zero point
energy, that'd
be more fun and one wouldn't have to fill up for gas.
I'll have to wait
a century or two for these apes to figure out how to
build one, and the
first models to be released will be recalled--at least,
those that can
safely return to earth will be recalled. But it's better
than waiting
for those goddamned Xists.
HMMPH. I wanna GET OFF NOW.
Her Ladyship Lilith
--
\m/ -=8=- http://lilith.foolspress.com/ -=8=- \m/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
In article <3C850DA9.834722B4@noway.com>, Reverend
DJ Epoch
<nunyabiz@noway.com> wrote:
> ...at least I can STILL shit in a gascan without
herniating myself.
Then you'll be one of the survivors. Lucky, lucky you.
Her Ladyship Lilith
--
\m/ -=8=- http://lilith.foolspress.com/ -=8=- \m/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
In article <050320021131062697%stang@subgenius.com>,
Rev. Ivan Stang
<stang@subgenius.com> wrote:
> HOT PASTRAMI SANDWICH.
*shudders with delight*
Yes, sire.
Her Ladyship Lilith
--
\m/ -=8=- http://lilith.foolspress.com/ -=8=- \m/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chas. 'Mark' Bee" <c-bee1@uiuc.edu>
I dunno, it seems to me that if we run the whole
planet thru a gravel
crusher, all the oil might come to the top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
In article <oa036a.e4c2.ln@news.concourse.com>,
The Stinking Bishop
Prostata Cantata MP <prostata@bronze.coil.com>
wrote:
> And actually, he's right. There are lots of oil
fields that have lots of
> oil in them, but the break even point on extraction
controls what is
> pumped.
So, if someone developed a technology that'd in effect
lower the break
even point, we could see oil pumps over those fields
in the next 50
years, correct?
Her Ladyship Lilith
--
\m/ -=8=- http://lilith.foolspress.com/ -=8=- \m/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bryan J. Maloney" <bjm10@cornell.edu>
In article <050320021152525387%lilith@ZubJenius.com>,
Her Ladyship
Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com> wrote:
> I suspect that Bryan is simply annoyed at Marc's
poo-pooing every idea
> that has involved converting biomass or any other
source of carbon into
> fuel.
If one truly believes there is no hope at all, then
the only intelligent
response it to end the matter.
There are two sorts of doomsayers, hags and harbingers.
Hags say things
on the order of "If you don't stop, we are doomed!"
Harbingers say "We
are doomed and there is NOTHING that can be done about
it." Hags
deserve to at least be considered. Harbingers should
be shot out of
hand, even if they ultimately do turn out to be right.
--
America is a wonderful country. Where else could a
young Black man like
Michael Jackson grow up to be a middle-aged White woman?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
"The Rev. Dr. Lt. Chaos Israel" <fossil_1984@hotmail.com>
wrote in message
news:5f05090e.0203050854.709ca1d3@posting.google.com...
> When we run out of oil--anywhere between 50 and
500 years from now,
> and despite all the yelling & screaming, really,
*no one knows*--when
> we run out of oil,
I can beat that. I predict with total confidence that
we will *never* run
out of oil...
because there will still be lots in the ground when
we reach the stage of
"it will cost more energy to lift and refine this
oil than we will get out
of it."
A lot of Very Smart People have done a *lot* of math
(one report, for
instance, is taken so seriously by the petroleum industry
that to get a full
copy of it they are willing to shell out $20K PER COPY)
to try to figure
this out. M. King Hubbert, noted petrogeologist and
serial killer (well, I'm
guessing on that last part, but if I had a name like
M. King Hubbert, *I*
would have been) evolved a mathematical equation that
very accurately
predicts the relationship between the rate of oil discovery
in a field and
the amount of oil that will ultimately be recovered
from it. Improvements in
drilling technology have hardly affected the applicability
of this equation
at all, and it was developed more than forty years ago.
The important point, as this analysis tells us, is not
when we run out, but
when we cannot increase production. (This typically
occurs when roughly half
the oil has been removed from the field, but that is
a consequence of the
discovery rate, not a cause.) If we cannot increase
production we cannot
grow the oil-based economy. If production peaked in
2000, it means that the
world's economy has also peaked. Booms here and busts
there (even busts like
Rev. Soozie the Floozy's) notwithstanding, growth, on
a systemic basis, must
now end. Since our economy requires growth to operate,
it will soon cease to
function properly.
>all the grain rotting in the silos in America,
> Canada, Argentina, and the Ukraine, will be converted
into fuel
> alcohol.
It'll help. It'll help a lot. But without industrial
agriculture you can't
produce enough, and the efficiency ratio is too low
for industrial
agriculture to sustain itself without petrochemicals,
even absent
considerations of herbicides, pesticices, and fertilizers
which require
petrochemicals both as a base and to operate the industries
that produce
them. Look at North Korea if you want to see how this
is going to happen.
Don't forget that we use petrochemicals to do a lot
more than run cars and
trucks. Jets and cargo ships. Refined petroleum's incredible
calorie-per-unit-mass is the only thing that keeps our
modern transport
system working and without it a lot of people get real
hungry real fast.
> 'Bout 5 years before we acually get a workable
system for fusion
> power.
This is our only hope. A breakthrough would render a
lot of this moot,
although it had better be pretty portable, because you
can't make electric
cargo planes or transport ships.
> Sorry, we're not going to run out of energy anytime soon.
We never will. We just won't have enough.
St. Marc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
"Her Ladyship Lilith von Fraumench" <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
wrote in message
news:050320021152525387%lilith@ZubJenius.com...
> I suspect that Bryan is simply annoyed at Marc's
poo-pooing every idea
> that has involved converting biomass or any other
source of carbon into
> fuel.
Did you ever read "The Last Question?" Great
story. At one point, one of the
characters is trying to figure out what humanity will
do when the sun burns
out. Sort of makes the oil problem look like the insignificant
detail that
it is, cosmically speaking.
In any event, the person to whom he is speaking says,
"You're thinking we'll
switch to other stars, aren't you? You're just like
the man who got under a
tree to get out of the rain, figuring when his tree
soaked through, he'd
switch to another tree."
The conclusion is left as an exercise for the student.
In any event, while
it's not entirely on point, it gives the flavor of the
problem. We can't
raise and harvest enough biomass or build enough solar
cells and wind
generators to break even, energy-wise, unless we use
petroleum to inject
energy into the process. When we run out of energy-positive
petroleum, the
system breaks down. And we don't even have to get that
far, because without
an expanding petroleum supply, growth stops, and without
growth, the Western
economic model (all flavors) breaks down.
I'll be blunt. Absent some miracle on the scale of Xist
landings, *billions
of people are going to die* because petroleum supplies
will be inadequate to
raise and transport enough food to feed them. If that
miracle occurs, then
it does not need to happen. I would consider a viable
alternate energy
source such a miracle, and if we can cooperate enough
to find one, that
would be another miracle. I'm certainly not going to
argue with two
miracles. At that point I'll shut up. Until then, I'll
just go with what I
see as the main probability.
> So the answer is to get away from goddamned carbon
based fuels, except
> Pinks. I'd drive a car that ran on Pinks.
I'll buy the second one.
> Actually, I want a FLYING SAUCER that runs on zero
point energy, that'd
> be more fun and one wouldn't have to fill up for
gas. I'll have to wait
> a century or two for these apes to figure out how
to build one, and the
> first models to be released will be recalled--at
least, those that can
> safely return to earth will be recalled. But it's
better than waiting
> for those goddamned Xists.
>
> HMMPH. I wanna GET OFF NOW.
Hey, who doesn't?
St. Marc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
"Bryan J. Maloney" <bjm10@cornell.edu>
wrote in message
news:bjm10-1B4BA8.15264605032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu...
> If one truly believes there is no hope at all,
then the only intelligent
> response it to end the matter.
I didn't say there was no hope. There's just no chance
of things continuing
the way they are. I already told you my contingency
plans.
> There are two sorts of doomsayers, hags and harbingers.
Hags say things
> on the order of "If you don't stop, we are
doomed!" Harbingers say "We
> are doomed and there is NOTHING that can be done
about it." Hags
> deserve to at least be considered. Harbingers
should be shot out of
> hand, even if they ultimately do turn out to be
right.
I'm not saying anybody's doomed. (Although they are,
that's not my point.)
I'm talking about the inescapable consequences of a
line of mathematics that
stretches from Malthus to Hubbert and which has never
been successfully
contradicted. It's going to happen unless something
changes. If something
changes, it won't.
St. Marc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: HellPope Huey <hellpopehuey@subspamgeenyus.com>
In article <050320021958166706%lilith@ZubJenius.com>,
Her says...
>In article <3C852152.5E106B1A@uiuc.edu>, Chas.
'Mark' Bee
><c-bee1@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>> I dunno, it seems to me that if we run the
whole planet thru a gravel
>> crusher, all the oil might come to the top.
>
>Whatcha going to run the gravel crusher on, though?
Happy thoughts?
Well, the Church runs on hot air and just enough cash
to make Stang sweat litle
break-dancing lizards. Let's see if there's a conversion
kit for the crusher.
HellPope Huey, hellpopehuey@subgenius.com
What in the world can I do
I know you can't trust smiling faces.
I know its possible to be friends with people
with whom you disagree.
I know its important to be civil
to those you find distasteful.
- Philip Martin
Funny situation, does it help?
Here no night could stop me now
No night that I can't make out
All I could ever want...I can't say what it is
All I could ever do...to make it all worthwhile
- Norman Salant, "No Night"
Krafted with Luv by Monsters
- "Futurama"
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