Subject: Re: One reason I do not support the troops.

From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Apr 3, 2003 2:29 PM
Message-ID: <030420031429445040%stang@subgenius.com>

In article <P3KdnTuU4KFW8xGjXTWc3g@speakeasy.net>, ZONTAR JOHNSON
<n@m.net> wrote:

> Black and white thinking is a symptom of a profoundly disturbed mind.

It is also the symptom of a perfectly ordinary, normal, garden-variety
mind.

>
> See:
>
> http://www.probush.com/traitor.htm
>
> "IF YOU DO NOT SUPPORT OUR PRESIDENT'S DECISIONS YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO
> OUR COUNTRY!"

"Support the troops" does not necessarily mean you support the war or
the fucking president. That's only what They WANT you to think. That
black and white thing works in both directions, indeed in 3D.

For instance I thought this whole war thing was a total crock from the
git-go, and still do, and to me, Bush being President is among the most
disgusting symptoms of the End Times yet. Such is OLD HISTORY. The
actual fighting is NEW history.

I have this thing about soldiers of my homeland (to deliberately use
loaded language) in time of war, whereby I support their effort to kill
the other guy before he kills them, or else to retreat and get all back
home tucked in their beds safe and sound and fuck the war. This is
completely above and beyond any rightness or wrongness I might feel
regarding the conflict they're engaged in.

I am working right now (among other things) on trying to organize and
post on SubSITE, or maybe even someday a PAPER Fist, the marvelous
artwork and commentary of every possible stripe that the various
SubGenii have done regarding the hideous turmoil of this Now Age. I am
am bound and determined that SubSITE and any parts of the Church under
my watch should represent ALL SubGenius hatreds and bigotries, left
right and indifferent. For whatever vain reason.

However one thing I DON'T want is for some depressed SubGenius grunt or
grunt-mate to look to SubSITE for a tiny glimmer of slack and sympathy
only to find ONLY the endless corny, tired pictures of Bush with devil
horns and a Hitler mustache and blood on his mouth. Corniness pisses me
off almost as much as pain and death. And boy howdy have I felt swamped
in corniness lately.

I want the SubGenius grunt to see that "Bob" is on his or her side even
if it's only because "Bob" wants to be able sell more bullets to him or
her later.

We have never gotten so much as a DOLLAR for a bullet OR a pamphlet
from Iraq, whereas there are many SubGeniuses who happen to be in the
U.S. military overseas, or in SubMarines spying on evil do-gooders,
right this very minute. I realize that this is typically AMERICAN
thinking. It is also typical THINKING.

Also, I sincerely appreciate certain work that soldiers have done for
me in the past, whereby I get to loudly, and with impunity, denounce my
entire culture and heritage in mass media (albeit very SMALL TIME and
NON-PAYING mass media) for 23 years now.

I spent a whole year working on THE CU CHI TUNNELS, a documentary movie
about the Viewnam War AS TOLD BY FORMER VIET CONG. (That movie is now
available on Amazon.com by the way and it is a VERY VERY EYE OPENING
MOVIE.*) I was also editing a movie about Americans in modern Vietnam
called DESTINATION DA NANG. It enriched my understanding of the
realities of war. (And in the comfort of a Dallas office.)

The behavior of world leaders is way out of any control of mine. *I*
didn't vote for the fuck. *I* threw my vote AWAY on my stupid
CONVICTIONS. However I still sympathize with the people who have their
asses on the line. Even if I think volunteering for the shittiest job
in the world was probably a dumb idea in the first place. That's no job
for a SubGenius.

I even sympathize with the Iraqi soldiers and dumbasses and draftees. I
just sympathize with the so-called "coalition" grunts a whole lot more,
and I do not CARE how my words on some dumb newsgroup affect a bunch of
fat assed spoiled college students and aging hippies who are going to
have plain normal days all this month. I do care slightly about how
they would affect somebody with their actual butt being shot at in the
here and now. Not that said butt would be terribly concerned with my
opinions during said fussillade. The other fantasy is that the words I
say now might later, in some miniscule, microscopic trickle-down way,
merge with a zillion other life impressions to indirectly affect some
future kid's decision on down the line, a decision that unlike our
blatherings might be important somehow. Leaving a little tip for the
next poor sucker on his one way trip, to quote Zappa. Mindfull, if
vainly, that all IS vanity.

When the senseless slaughtering of humans for many abstract and complex
bad reasons is finally over, relatively, for a while, I am sure I'll go
back to the blanket military industrial complex bashing that I make my
fucking living at and stop "supporting troops."

But my wife is such a sweet peace activist that I have to be
PatrioPsychotic just to provide a modicum of balance in the vast karmic
skein underlying all things. (WINK)

And I personally really do "support the troops" while NOT supporting
the war.

If you don't think that distinction can be made, then maybe you fell
into Their line of reasoning too.

Nothing personal; this is a "rant."

* THE CU CHI TUNNELS did not get much theatrical release in the U.S.
for reasons that might not be obvious. Vietnamese refugees start the
war up all over again upon just hearing that it exists. Veterans of
that war go in expecting to hate it and come away thankful for it. It
has however garnered good awards and attention in Holland and England
and the like. The director is MICKEY GRANT.

--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected (Rev. Ivan Stang, prop.)
P.O. Box 181417, Cleveland, OH 44118 (fax 216-320-9528)
A subsidiary of:
The SubGenius Foundation, Inc. / P.O. Box 204206, Austin, TX 78720-4206
Dobbs-Approved Authorized Commercial Outreach of The Church of the SubGenius
SubSITE: http://www.subgenius.com
For SubGenius Biz & Orders: call toll free to 1-888-669-2323
or email: jesus@subgenius.com
PRABOB

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: One reason I do not support the troops.
From: zosodada@aol.com (Zosodada)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Apr 3, 2003 6:30 PM
Message-ID: <20030403183045.26171.00000510@mb-fd.aol.com>

Stang, " 'Support the troops' does not necessarily mean you support the war or
the fucking president. That's only what They WANT you to think. That black and
white thing works in both directions, indeed in 3D."

Remember when shitcunt came to the conclusion that since I am anti-Saddam, I
must therefore be pro-Bush? That was funny.

<<We have never gotten so much as a DOLLAR for a bullet OR a pamphlet from
Iraq, whereas there are many SubGeniuses who happen to be in the U.S. military
overseas... >>

I can think of one or two good SubG's with support positions here in the
homeland as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: One reason I do not support the troops.
From: nenslo <nenslo@yahooX.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Apr 3, 2003 6:40 PM
Message-ID: <3E8CC67B.795688E2@yahooX.com>

"Rev. Ivan Stang" wrote:
>
> In article <P3KdnTuU4KFW8xGjXTWc3g@speakeasy.net>, ZONTAR JOHNSON
> <n@m.net> wrote:
>
> > Black and white thinking is a symptom of a profoundly disturbed mind.
>
> It is also the symptom of a perfectly ordinary, normal, garden-variety
> mind.
>

To people who work in the Mental Health Industry, any way of thinking,
acting or living that differs from theirs is a symptom of a profoundly
disturbed mind.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: One reason I do not support the troops.
From: "Dunter Powries" <fech.redcap@spedlins>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Apr 3, 2003 2:35 PM
Message-ID: <M10ja.561$b77.42@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

ZONTAR JOHNSON <n@m.net> wrote ...
> Black and white thinking is a symptom of a profoundly disturbed mind.
>

That's a pretty absolute statement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: One reason I do not support the troops.
From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Apr 3, 2003 7:28 PM
Message-ID: <030420031928419551%stang@subgenius.com>

In article <20030403183045.26171.00000510@mb-fd.aol.com>, Zosodada
<zosodada@aol.com> wrote:

>
> I can think of one or two good SubG's with support positions here in the
> homeland as well.

Forget them. I happen to know that right as we speak, one of those is
jacking off to last year's Connietite calendar and the other one is
posing for next year's.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: One reason I do not support the troops.
From: Joe Cosby <joecosby@SPAMBLOCKmindspring.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Apr 3, 2003 8:29 PM
Message-ID: <l2np8vcnb9h8jfsj8puetoeihrn98hhl1k@4ax.com>

On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:29:44 -0500, "Rev. Ivan Stang"
<stang@subgenius.com> wrote:

>"Support the troops" does not necessarily mean you support the war or
>the fucking president. That's only what They WANT you to think. That
>black and white thing works in both directions, indeed in 3D.
>
>For instance I thought this whole war thing was a total crock from the
>git-go, and still do, and to me, Bush being President is among the most
>disgusting symptoms of the End Times yet. Such is OLD HISTORY. The
>actual fighting is NEW history.
>
>I have this thing about soldiers of my homeland (to deliberately use
>loaded language) in time of war, whereby I support their effort to kill
>the other guy before he kills them, or else to retreat and get all back
>home tucked in their beds safe and sound and fuck the war. This is
>completely above and beyond any rightness or wrongness I might feel
>regarding the conflict they're engaged in.

I'm all in favor of that and all, I definitely would rather see us win
than lose, and with as few people getting blown to little meaty bits
as possible.

The problem though, is that that's why they fight wars in the first
place. The biggest reason, to get solidarity out of people.

Bush's approval ratings are at their highest since he was elected,
because we're at war. It's not that people think his decisions have
been admirable (I hope not, anyway, this has been a horribly
mismanaged military action) but they know that now, we are committed,
we are in a do or die position to a certain extent and they know that
sticking together is the safest way back out. Victory is the only way
out of the hole.

But it is well-known by politicians that war will get that reaction.
So if we react by supporting the war in general, we let them wipe the
slate clean of their past mistakes. That's why Bush has taken the
course most likely to prolong the war as much as possible. Massive
air strikes in advance could have made this as short as Daddy's war,
but that's not what they want.

It isn't a way, it's a commercial for the Bush presidency. And people
are dying for that.

OTOH I am definitely in favor of supporting the troops themselves.
However bad the feelings get about this war, I would hate to see them
come back to something like the Vietnam veterans came back to, where
the national attitude towards combat veterans is that they are some
kind of psychotic baby-killing monsters. The soldiers themselves are,
in general, really genuinely trying to defend us, our way of life, as
corny as that might sound. I mean that's the basic mindset of a
volunteer soldier; corny or not, they are there risking their lives
for us.

Vietnam vets were demonized for years, and they were the wrong demons.

And do you know what finally turned it around?

Rambo.

I used to work in the VA, really, it's no joke. Or it is a joke but
nobody's laughing. Or whatever. Public pressure for benefits
(disability, education, surviving dependants, etc.) was fairly low and
the VA was kind of hidden away in the civil service shadows. Public
feeling towards veterans was very hostile. Then shortly after 'Rambo'
came out, all of a sudden there was this huge hue and cry for better
benefits for veterans and everybody loved Nam vets.

Oh well I seem to have lost track of my original subject.

--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.home.mindspring.com

Every medium of communication from cave painting to the Internet has been first
used to convey intellectual or spiritual content, then pornography, then everything
else.

If the nineteenth-century abolitionists who demanded the suppression of high-speed
mechanical printing presses because they were used chiefly to produce erotic books
had been successful, you would be reading this from a sheet of parchment now.

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Original file name: One reason I do not support the - converted on Monday, 21 July 2003, 13:45