REPOST: Questions about Community Currency.
Posted by:: polar bear
Date: 17 Mar 2005 16:24:12 GMT
--------
In article <1110895778.916966.85510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Quirk" wrote:
> polar bear wrote:
>
> > In article <1110807511.850496.138120@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Quirk" wrote:
snip
>
> > But back to the currency. An item of interest regarding silver as
> > currency: http://tinyurl.com/5t42j
> > (I had to crunch it, it was a mile long)
> >
> > key points are:
> >
> > MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - An influential Mexican businessman wants to
> > reintroduce silver coins as legal currency -- as in Mexico's 16th
> > century heyday -- and, far-fetched as it may sound, the idea is
> winning
> > support.
>
> Yes, you might also be interested in the re-emergance of Islamic Dinar,
> a gold coin in the middle east. Google it.
>
> Its clear the era of US dollar hegemony is coming to a close, but I
> don't think wealth-as-currency is the only thing that will emerge.
>
> In fact, once the US balance of trade is more or less equal the
> currency will probably be stable again, at a much lower value of
> course.
Well, the US$ index has fallen 32% since it's 2001 peak, and still the
trade deficit expands. The basic problem: nothing is made in the USA
anymore, and the major source of imports, China, pegs it's currency to
the dollar. It would take a few paragraphs to explore all the
ramifications, but the short answer is: I don't see a happy ending.
This won't be reconciled using the old textbook formula. It's gone way
too far for that.
>
> And then I expect Gold and Silver to start dropping in value again.
Gold is an interesting story. There's a massive implicit short
position in gold right now, thanks to the carry trade. If the yield
curve flattens, or inverts, those shorts will have to be covered. Long
story short , gold will come down, but from a much higher
level than today. Silver is another story. It has many industrial
uses, including some new applications that will increase demand far in
excess of the losses owing to digital photography. There's also a huge
supply deficit. If everyone holding contracts today demanded physical
delivery, the Comex would have to shut down. It runs something like
10 to 1. I've seen credible work that suggests we may ee a spot
market only in the near future.
>
> Not land though.
Productive farmland may rise, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the
residential side. Try heating a McMansion at $100 bbl oil. Try
finding a buyer when everyone already "owns" or is trying to sell
because their floating rate mortgage just took a trip to the moon.
And of course when THAT goes, it's bye-bye bond market.
>
> Thanks for the links and information!
not a problem.
>
> > ***2006 Mexicans go to the polls. both PRI and PAN have been trying
> to
> > derail a VERY popular PRD mayor who shows every sign of being a
> > front-runner. Needless to say, he is not popular in Washington:
> > http://www.marxist.com/Latinam/targets_venezuela_cuba.html
> > ***
>
> Needles indeed, if Mexico had oil, that would be enough to make them an
> axis of evil candidate.
You're joking here, right?
pb
Posted by:: "Quirk"
Date: 17 Mar 2005 16:28:26 GMT
--------
polar bear wrote:
> In article <1110807511.850496.138120@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Quirk" wrote:
> > polar bear wrote:
> I know what the problem is. It's my natural aversion to working with
> other people, or often just being around them, that accounts for my
> hesitation. I am not a joiner, which is why I joined the CoSG.
I don't think that is much of a problem, as I said, a Venture Commune
is an investment organization, not a colony, it doesn't place any
special requirement on being around other people.
> The system itself can work. No doubt it would need dynamic
adjustment,
> but I've personally seen it happen. The Huterites in Alberta where I
> grew up, for example, or the Menonites in Belize who basically run
the
> dairy industry. (All manner of dairy products can be safely consumed
> in Belize, thanks to them)
I think it can work too, but it is a little more abstracted a scheme
then the Menonites or the Huterites, as the Communards are only joint
shareholders in the assets of the Venture Commune, not necessarily
neighbours in a isolated colony.
> But back to the currency. An item of interest regarding silver as
> currency: http://tinyurl.com/5t42j
> (I had to crunch it, it was a mile long)
>
> key points are:
>
> MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - An influential Mexican businessman wants to
> reintroduce silver coins as legal currency -- as in Mexico's 16th
> century heyday -- and, far-fetched as it may sound, the idea is
winning
> support.
Yes, you might also be interested in the re-emergance of Islamic Dinar,
a gold coin in the middle east. Google it.
Its clear the era of US dollar hegemony is coming to a close, but I
don't think wealth-as-currency is the only thing that will emerge.
In fact, once the US balance of trade is more or less equal the
currency will probably be stable again, at a much lower value of
course.
And then I expect Gold and Silver to start dropping in value again.
Not land though.
Thanks for the links and information!
> ***2006 Mexicans go to the polls. both PRI and PAN have been trying
to
> derail a VERY popular PRD mayor who shows every sign of being a
> front-runner. Needless to say, he is not popular in Washington:
> http://www.marxist.com/Latinam/targets_venezuela_cuba.html
> ***
Needles indeed, if Mexico had oil, that would be enough to make them an
axis of evil candidate.
> *** The Muslims are working on their own plan, the Dinar, which I'm
> sure you're aware of.
Ummm. I guess I should read the whole post before responding huh? :)
> All of this speaks to what comes next. If we
> reach that point, and I'd say the odds are pretty good, you're going
to
> want to have some silver lying around. So much the better if it's
> integral to your economy. Maybe your first commune should be a
mining
> venture. ***
A point of clarification; the Commune is just an investment
organization, like a venture capital fund or an investment bank, the
first *Enterprise* (which are private ventures) could be a mining
venture, but that is too capital intensive, I think the first
Enterprises will be value-added internet services resellers. But, I
wont go into details. In principal any venture in which marginal
productivity of labour is high and capital requirements are low would
work, a promotions and entertainment company, or a temporary worker
agency would be among the early venture too, my crystal ball tells me.
However, eventually, Venture Communes would invest in mining, and
housing and other land-intensive Enterprises. You know. Buy the whole
world.
Regards.
Posted by:: polar bear
Date: 17 Mar 2005 16:29:39 GMT
--------
In article <1110807511.850496.138120@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Quirk" wrote:
> polar bear wrote:
>
snip some stuff
>
> You are entitled to decide which groups you feel your comments should
> be posted to. Personally I agree, since we seem to have drifted back
> into talking about Venture Communism, and not Community Currency, which
> is the intended subject of this tread :)
>
I know what the problem is. It's my natural aversion to working with
other people, or often just being around them, that accounts for my
hesitation. I am not a joiner, which is why I joined the CoSG.
The system itself can work. No doubt it would need dynamic adjustment,
but I've personally seen it happen. The Huterites in Alberta where I
grew up, for example, or the Menonites in Belize who basically run the
dairy industry. (All manner of dairy products can be safely consumed
in Belize, thanks to them)
But back to the currency. An item of interest regarding silver as
currency: http://tinyurl.com/5t42j
(I had to crunch it, it was a mile long)
key points are:
MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - An influential Mexican businessman wants to
reintroduce silver coins as legal currency -- as in Mexico's 16th
century heyday -- and, far-fetched as it may sound, the idea is winning
support.
*** the us$ is falling. Mexican business has been burned on both
sides. Looks like they've had enough. ***
The Senate has already passed the initiative, and the lower house is
expected to vote soon on the bill, which has struck a nerve in a
country where decades of financial crisis have fomented a deep distrust
of paper currency.
***2006 Mexicans go to the polls. both PRI and PAN have been trying to
derail a VERY popular PRD mayor who shows every sign of being a
front-runner. Needless to say, he is not popular in Washington:
http://www.marxist.com/Latinam/targets_venezuela_cuba.html
***
The central bank opposes the plan as anachronistic.
*** Well, duh. ***
snip
According to Price and advocate lawmakers interviewed by Reuters, the
new coins would be valued according to the price of silver as a
commodity, with the central bank, Banco de Mexico, managing coinage and
charging a 10 percent seigniorage.
*** The Muslims are working on their own plan, the Dinar, which I'm
sure you're aware of. All of this speaks to what comes next. If we
reach that point, and I'd say the odds are pretty good, you're going to
want to have some silver lying around. So much the better if it's
integral to your economy. Maybe your first commune should be a mining
venture. ***
pb