Subject: as the war machine keeps turning

From: "Blackout" <blackout@404infomagic.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Fri, Sep 21, 2001 6:34 PM
Message-ID: <6jPq7.582$N67.527038@news.uswest.net>

"statichiss" wrote

> Let me describe the single, key difference between every army that has
> ever fought and lost in Afghanistan and what the U.S. is about to do.
> . .they were attempting a war of conquest. The U.S. has no intention
> of conquering anyone. . .deposing the illiterate little shits that run
> that country is not a conquest. . .no one on Earth recognizes the
> Taliban as a government (oh, and most of them REALLY CAN'T read or
> write). . .what the hell would we DO with the damn place even if we
> took it, which we won't, because we can't, because that'd make our
> situation WORSE. The U.S. will land in Afghanistan. They will stage
> military operation within that country. They will eventually get bin
> Laden. Then they will leave and let the U.N. clean up.

wow. that sounds REALLY GREAT! you have it ALL FIGURED OUT!

but then again you have never been there either so I'm going to have toc
hange categories from wishful thinking snot nosed american know it all
and go with grizzled Russian war vet or $500, Alex.

I'm guessing every single time anybody went in there a bunch of
nincompoops went "yeah but the ________'s that tried it last time were a
bunch of dumbfucks but not us man, we are gonna KICK ASS because they
didn't have ________ or the advantage of __________".

and then proceeded to get their asses kicked.

maybe the baseballapplepiechevrolet missles will work against people
with nothing to lose that will die for their cause that can pop up out
of nowhere and go back there instantly after they blow off a bunch of
up-up-down-left-jumpjumpjump nintendo dork's heads/peckers but it
doesn't seem very likely to anybody that has thought about it for more
than a 3 minute hate's worth.

"the white man is brave when he's got tanks, he's brave when he's got
bombs, he's brave when he's got a whole lot of company along with him.
But you take that little man from Africa or Asia and turn him loose in
the woods with a blade,,,,,,that's all he needs, all he needs is a
blade,,,,,,and when the sun goes down and it's dark, IT'S EVEN STEVEN"
Malcolm X - The Ballot or The Bullet Speech

>
> The Taliban siezed power 6 years ago. To think that every Afghani is
> supportive of those ignorant fanatics is like saying every Xtian is a
> potential abortion clinic bomber. Distributing 100,000 shortwave
> radios around that country would be more effective than any weapon in
> the military. (And instead of Fantomas. . .how about we let the
> families of some of the MUSLIMS who died in the WTC tell them what
> they think of bin Laden and his "cause". The mockery he makes of their
> faith. . .)

on this I agree with you, and it may well be the only chance they have
of getting out with their pants.

> > >If resolving this issue only revolved around the history of one war
I
> > >would agree with you. However, Afghanistan has been chewing armies
up
> > >and spitting out the bloody chunks for centuries. Can someone
repost
>
> Yeah, go ahead and compare people riding around on horses with bolt
> action rifles to microband radar that can track a mortar shell as soon
> as it breaks the horizon and provide targetting coordinates to high
> altitude bombers before the shell even hits.

you will be comparing them sooner than you think. those people have been
practicing for this hardcore for 20+ years and you actually think a
bunch of teenagers are going to go open up a succesful can off whoopass
on them? they might get it opened but,,,,,,,,,,,,,

> The Soviet opinion has no
> validity either, a.) they are bitter, b.) they fought a different
> style of war, c.) their technology was 10 years behind ours 15 years
> ago when they fought the Afghanis, d.) we backed the Mujahadeen.

what a dumbass. the Soviets fought a "different" kind of war alright,
including biological and chemical attacks and going in to villiages and
wiping out the entire male population type terror tactics. guess what?
they got their asses kicked. they tried every dirty trick they knew and
then got out of dodge. They made #1 on the world's greatest committers
of atrocities lists, and then packed up their shit and said FUCK THIS
NOISE, IT'S NOT WORTH IT.

they had this other soviet vet on tv the other night and they were
asking him about what they had learned and he said every conventional
tactic was pretty much useless in Afghanistan. They asked him what the
soviets had figured out were effective techniques and he said b-52 type
carpet bombing entire areas was the only thing they figure out that
would work and once they started the only way to effectively stop them
from running down the mountain passes and getting away was by "vigorous
application of Napalm". at which point they cut away because they were
looking for stuff that sounded more like a spell of enchantment or a
Vulcan nerve pinch type tactic, not in your face blood and gore and guts
and veins in your teeth type shit that just depresses the masses and
makes them buy less of the things they advertise on such programs.

fuck yes they are bitter, they got their asses kicked by a bunch of
stone age guys that wipe their butts with rocks (thanks to
you-know-who).

> . . .and bin Laden barely has a friend left in the world, even the
> Taliban is split. . .

OBL is dead meat, make no mistake about it. even if he didn't do it,
which is where my money is still riding.

> Deacon Nekkid

have you enlisted yet? if it's going to be such a cakewalk you sure
wouldn't want to miss out on any of the glory, right? let us know how it
turns out, we need brave gullible men like you on the front. NO? WHY
NOT? GET YOUR COWARDLY ASS DOWN THERE AND BUCK UP FOR JESUS YOU PUSSY.
tough talk is CHEAP when it's someone else's teenagers you plan on
stoking the fires of righteousness with.

think - REVENGE

think - JUSTICE

think - AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE

think - BE ALL YOU CAN BE

because otherwise, you'll start thinking about actual brains and
eyeballs on the end of bayonets which is a real drag.

ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE YOURS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: as the war machine keeps turning
From: friday@fridayjones.com (Friday Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.slack,alt.friday
Date: Fri, Sep 21, 2001 7:32 PM
Message-ID: <friday-ya02408000R2109011932040001@news.us.inter.net>

In article <6jPq7.582$N67.527038@news.uswest.net>, "Blackout"
<blackout@404infomagic.com> wrote:

>"the white man is brave when he's got tanks, he's brave when he's got
>bombs, he's brave when he's got a whole lot of company along with him.
>But you take that little man from Africa or Asia and turn him loose in
>the woods with a blade,,,,,,that's all he needs, all he needs is a
>blade,,,,,,and when the sun goes down and it's dark, IT'S EVEN STEVEN"
>Malcolm X - The Ballot or The Bullet Speech

HARDLY.

You can SEE the WHITE GUY a lot better in the DARK.

--
"Bunch together a group of people deliberately chosen for strong
religious feelings, and you have a practical guarantee of dark
morbidities expressed in crime, perversion, and insanity."

--HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 10/4/30
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: as the war machine keeps turning
From: joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Fri, Sep 21, 2001 8:32 PM
Message-ID: <3babd932.42626370@News.CIS.DFN.DE>

"Blackout" <blackout@404infomagic.com> hunched over a computer, typing
feverishly;
thunder crashed, "Blackout" <blackout@404infomagic.com> laughed madly,
then wrote:

>"statichiss" wrote
>
>> Let me describe the single, key difference between every army that has
>> ever fought and lost in Afghanistan and what the U.S. is about to do.
>> . .they were attempting a war of conquest. The U.S. has no intention
>> of conquering anyone. . .deposing the illiterate little shits that run
>> that country is not a conquest. . .no one on Earth recognizes the
>> Taliban as a government (oh, and most of them REALLY CAN'T read or
>> write). . .what the hell would we DO with the damn place even if we
>> took it, which we won't, because we can't, because that'd make our
>> situation WORSE. The U.S. will land in Afghanistan. They will stage
>> military operation within that country. They will eventually get bin
>> Laden. Then they will leave and let the U.N. clean up.
>
>wow. that sounds REALLY GREAT! you have it ALL FIGURED OUT!
>
>but then again you have never been there either so I'm going to have toc
>hange categories from wishful thinking snot nosed american know it all
>and go with grizzled Russian war vet or $500, Alex.
>
>I'm guessing every single time anybody went in there a bunch of
>nincompoops went "yeah but the ________'s that tried it last time were a
>bunch of dumbfucks but not us man, we are gonna KICK ASS because they
>didn't have ________ or the advantage of __________".

Partly I think he has a point.

When the Soviets went in, they had 'seized power' (as far as grabbing
the airports, snuffing the government, and the usual stff you would do
in a nation-state type invasion) within a few hours with Spetznatz.

It's trying to -hold- a place like that which is impossible.

Similar with the British.

***

But personally, I don't think it makes a rat's ass of difference. I
think going in their to kill or be killed in order to show how badass
we are is just basically fucking dumb, but maybe necessary, I don't
know.

But it really misses the big picture. What is GENUINELY FUCKING
IMPORTANT is that we now HAVE some real convincing looking support
from large parts of the Muslim world.

This in itself could be one of the greatest pieces in making a better
future (OK yes that sounds like bullshit, but really) that has ever
happened. I mean if -we- work with -Muslim Arabs- in a joint venture,
regardless of what that venture is, that would dramatically transform
the politics of the middle east in a very good way. Countries that go
to war together tend to become butt buddies. It's a guy thing.

So if we don't get STUPID and FUCK ALL THAT UP then the terrorist
faction has actually -completely defeated themselves- by their act of
mass murder. If we DO fuck it all up, then the terrorists have gotten
exactly what they wanted. The muslim world aligned absolutely against
the western world in a battle to the death.

Fuck. But I think we're going to fuck it all up. That's how it's
looking now. I think Colin Powell is the only one over there with a
lick of sense. In fact it wasn't until I read how he's trying to
handle this coalition that I realized what the long term good could
be. Powell clearly 'gets it'.

The Taliban have neutralized bin Laden, at least contained him. And
they are -grovelling-. They -want- to help.

So, gather and present evidence. Let them save a little fucking face
in this whole thing.

Why oh why oh why do we have to have Guuber in office for this?

--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.home.mindspring.com

"I'm from Venus. Can you spare a lemon?"


Sig by Kookie Jar 5.98d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: as the war machine keeps turning
From: Artemia Salina <y2k@sheayright.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Fri, Sep 21, 2001 9:42 PM
Message-ID: <3BABEC7E.81510CEC@sheayright.com>

We're seeing what appears to be unity of cause in Afghanistan in
news reports lately, but I have severe doubts about their resolve
in waging a holy war against us. For example, one report tonight,
while showing a group of Pakistani's engaged in a riot, the reporter
said that a shop keeper had been lynched because he had refused to
close his shop in protest of America. These countries are by no
means democracies where it is safe to go against GroupThink, especially
if that group is violent. I certainly wouldn't assume that Pakistan
and Afghanistan are unified against America based on news reports of
riots. The rioters must be rioting against SOMEONE.

I also remember the Gulf War and all of the bluster being spouted
by Iraq of how they would rather die than be beaten by us. That was
BEFORE we started bombing them. Once they had actually TASTED our
might, the white flags started to pop up like crocuses after a
spring rain.

I think that those who are ALLOWED to speak in Afghanistan are very
good at talking the talk of infinite resolve and hatred, but when
our F-16's start buzzing them at super sonic speeds 100 feet above
the roofs of their huts day in and day out, they'll change their
tune in short order.

The real problem will be to put an accurate face on the enemy; they
don't wear badges. This, I think, will be a much more difficult problem
than geography or logistics or the resolve of ignorant lunatics (oops!).
In order to preserve the sympathy of other countries (and that WILL be
necessary) we have to avoid 'bad press'. I just KNOW that for every person
we kill there will be claims of foul play from Taliban controlled Afghanistan,
and if that continues long enough I fear that other countries will start
calling for proof of involvement for every casualty we inflict.

--
Artemia Salina -- http://www.drpez.com/drali1.htm
"WELCOME TO THE WORLD!!!! I AM YOUR MINISTER AND YOUR UNCLE!!"

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: as the war machine keeps turning
From: speaker616@hotmail.com (The Rev. Dr. Lt. Chaos Israel)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Sep 22, 2001 8:34 PM
Message-ID: <b3372e53.0109221634.6040cc7f@posting.google.com>

OK, a scenario:

Imagine some southeast Asian radical splinter group managed to crash
planes into the Kremlin and the Hermitage. Russia was ramping up to
send desantniki & Spetznaz into Vietnam.

Wouldn't we expect Ivan to take our 'Nam vets seriously?

--
Chaos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: as the war machine keeps turning
From: Eden Smallwood <zeppenwolf@geocities.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sun, Sep 23, 2001 12:28 AM
Message-ID: <220920012128274920%zeppenwolf@geocities.com>

In article <b3372e53.0109221634.6040cc7f@posting.google.com>, speaker616@hotmail.com (The Rev. Dr. Lt. Chaos Israel) wrote:

* OK, a scenario:
*
* Imagine some southeast Asian radical splinter group managed to crash
* planes into the Kremlin and the Hermitage. Russia was ramping up to
* send desantniki & Spetznaz into Vietnam.
*
* Wouldn't we expect Ivan to take our 'Nam vets seriously?

Quite. However, I don't think we got our butts kicked in Nam
because Ivan was supplying the opposition with Stingers et alia.

Also, going in and grabbing/killing a select few individuals
is probably easier than trying to take over the whole damn place.

Also, while Afghan is clearly an unfun place to fight, I
think that Ivan's stuff & doctrine are almost perfectly inappropriate
for it.

Lastly, I think our techno is noticeably and relevantly superior.

I think we are taking Ivan vets experience seriously, but it's
not one hundred percent relevant. Well, that's my understanding...

Eden

* --
* Chaos.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: as the war machine keeps turning
From: arbane@home.com (Arbane the Terrible)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Mon, Sep 24, 2001 12:25 AM
Message-ID: <3baeb40f.12902258@news>

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:28:27 -0700, Eden Smallwood
<zeppenwolf@geocities.com> wrote:

> Also, going in and grabbing/killing a select few individuals
>is probably easier than trying to take over the whole damn place.

I have to wonder.

Remember, the plural of 'moron' is 'focus group'.
-- James A. Wolf


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