A BUNCH OF SCARY WAR SHIT

From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 1:24 AM

"The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce"

By Stan Goff

(NOTE FROM STANG:
This is probably old hat to some SubGenii, a shocking unthinkable for
others. Seemed like an especially well written one, to me. Scared me.
Of course we're all a little high strung.

This essay was handed to me printed out on paper, along with other very
interesting alternative news reprinted from various websites, by Rev.
((CENSORED)). We were at the Strange Days fest in Cleveland, filming
ESO's performance. All my acquaintances there said they and their
friends had been jittery, that this terrorism shit was doing its job. I
am jitterier than ever and don't know what to believe. I will probably
soon go back to not believing anything at all.)

My friends got the essay from The Konformist
http://www.konformist.com

but it was earlier reprinted on:

http://narconews.com/goff1.html

and here's their intro:
((Narco News Commentary: The following text has been circulating as an
e-mail for some hours now. It has found a home at Narco News. -- About
two years ago, Stan Goff came to our attention when he wrote a
brilliant critique of U.S. policy in Colombia and its narco-pretext for
other agendas. This essay, like his previous work, is a "must read" for
anyone attempting to understand the immediate historical situation that
all the world today faces. Unfortunately, we have been unable to make
contact with Stan Goff, and if readers can help us with a current email
address or phone number, please send it along to narconews@hotmail.com.
We believe that his message is of great urgency and importance, and the
fact that it is alreadycirculating by email suggests a desire by the
author to have it read by the widest possible readership. We hope we
are correct in that assumption. Thus, we publish it here.))

***
The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce

By Stan Goff

I'm a retired Special Forces Master Sergeant. That doesn't cut much for
those who will only accept the opinions of former officers on military
matters, since we enlisted swine are assumed to be incapable of
grasping the nuances of doctrine.

But I wasn't just in the army. I studied and taught military science
and doctrine. I was a tactics instructor at the Jungle Operations
Training Center in Panama, and I taught Military Science at West Point.
And contrary to the popular image of what Special Forces does, SF's
mission is to teach. We offer advice and assistance to foreign forces.
That's everything from teaching marksmanship to a private to
instructing a Battalion staff on how to coordinate effective air
operations with a sister service.

Based on that experience, and operations in eight designated conflict
areas from Vietnam to Haiti, I have to say that the story we hear on
the news and read in the newspapers is simply not believable. The most
cursory glance at the verifiable facts, before, during, and after
September 11th, does not support the official line or conform to the
current actions of the United States government.

But the official line only works if they can get everyone to accept its
underlying premises. I'm not atall surprised about the Republican and
Democratic Parties repeating these premises. They are simply two
factions within a single dominant political class, and both are
financed by the same economic powerhouses. My biggest disappointment,
as someone who identifies himself with the left, has been the tacit
acceptance of those premises by others on the left, sometimes naively,
and sometimes to score some morality points. Those premises are
twofold. One, there is the premise that what this de facto
administration is doing now is a "response" to September 11th. Two,
there is the premise that this attack on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon was done by people based in Afghanistan. In my opinion,
neither of these is sound.

To put this in perspective we have to go back not to September 11th,
but to last year or further.

A man of limited intelligence, George W. Bush, with nothing more than
his name and the behind-the-scenes pressure of his powerful father-a
former President, ex-director of Central Intelligence, and an oil
man-is systematically constructed as a candidate, at tremendous cost.
Across the country, subtle and not-so-subtle mechanisms are put into
place to disfranchise a significant fraction of the Democrat's
African-American voter base. This doesn't come out until Florida
becomes a battleground for Electoral College votes, and the magnitude
of the story has been suppressed by the corporate media to this day. In
a decision so lacking in legitimacy, the Supreme Court will neither
by-line the author of the decision nor allow the decision to ever be
used as a precedent, Bush v. Gore awards the presidency of the United
States to a man who loses the popular vote in Florida and loses the
national popular vote by over 600,000.

This de facto regime then organizes a very interesting cabinet. The
Vice President is an oil executive and the former Secretary of Defense.
The National Security Advisor is a director on the board of a
transnational oil corporation and a Russia scholar. The Secretary of
State is a man with no diplomatic experience whatsoever, and the former
Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The other interesting appointment
is Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense. Rumsfeld is the former CEO
of Searle Pharmaceuticals. He and Cheney were featured as speakers at
the May, 2000, Russian-American Business Leaders Forum. So the
consistent currents in this cabinet are petroleum, the former Soviet
Union, and the military.

Based on the record of Daddy Bush, in all his guises, and the general
trajectory of US foreign policy as far back as the Carter
Administration, I feel I can reasonably conclude that Middle Eastern
and South Asian fossil fuels are one of their major preoccupations. Not
just because this klavern has some very direct financial interests in
fossil fuel, but because they surely know that worldwide oil production
is peaking as we speak, and will soon begin a permanent and
precipitousdecline that will completely change the character of
civilization as we know it within 20 years. Even the left seems to be
in deep denial about this, but the math is available. And, no,
alternative energies and energy technologies will not save us. All the
alternatives in the world can not begin to provide more than a tiny
fraction of the energy base now provided by oil. This makes it more
than a resource, and the drive to control what's left more than an
economic competition.

I further conclude that the economic colonization of the former Soviet
Union is probably high on that agenda, and in fact has a powerful
synergy with the issue of petroleum. Russia not only holds vast
untapped resources that beckon to imperialism in crisis, it remains a
credible military and nuclear challenger in the region.

We have not one, but three members of the Bush de facto cabinet with
military credentials, which makes the cabinet look quite a lot like a
military General Staff. All this way before September 11th.

Then there's the subject of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
NATO might have expected consignment to the dustbin of the Cold War
after the Eastern Bloc shattered in 1991. Peace dividend and all that.
But it didn't. It expanded directly into the former states of the
Eastern Bloc toward the former Soviet Union, and contributed
significant forces to the devastation of Iraq-a key country in the
world oil market, over which control translates into the ability to
manipulate oil prices.

NATO is a military formation, and the United States exerts the
controlling interest in it. It seemed like a form without a function,
but it remedied that pretty quickly.

Then when Yugoslavia refused to play ball with the International
Monetary Fund, the US and Germany began a systematic campaign of
destabilization there, even using some of the veterans of Afghanistan
in that campaign.

NATO became the military arm of that agenda-the break-up of Yugoslavia
into compliant statelets, the further containment of the former Soviet
Union, and the future pipeline easement for Caspain Sea oil to Western
European markets through Kosovo.

You see, this is important to understand, and people-even those against
the war talk-are tending to overlook the significance of it. NATO is
not a guarantor of international law, and it is not a humanitarian
organization.

It is a military alliance with one very dominant partner. And it can no
longer claim to be a defensive alliance against European socialists. It
is an instrument of military aggression.

NATO is the organization that is now going to thrust further along the
40th parallel from the Balkans through the Southern Asian Republics of
the former Soviet Union. The US military has already taken control of a
base in Uzbekistan. No one is talking about how what we are doing seems
to be a very logical extension of a strategy that was already in
motion, and has been in motion for two decades. Once we recognize the
pattern of activity designed to simultaneously consolidate control over
Middle Eastern and South Asian oil, and contain and colonize the former
Soviet Union, Afghanistan is exactly where they need to go to pursue
that agenda.

Afghanistan borders Iran, Pakistan, and even China but, more
importantly, the Central Asian Republics of the former Soviet Union,
Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. These border Kazakhstan.
Kazakhstan borders Russia. Turkmenistan sits on the Southeastern
quadrant of the Caspian Sea, whose oil the Bush Administration dearly
covets.

Afghanistan is necessary for two things: as a base of operations to
begin the process of destabilizing, breaking off, and establishing
control over the South Asian Republics, which will begin within the
next 18-24 months in my opinion, and constructing a pipeline through
Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan to deliver petroleum to the
Asian market.

The BBC was recently told by Niaz Naik, a Pakistani Foreign Secretary,
that senior American officials were warning them as early as mid-July
that military action for mid-October was being planned for Afghanistan.
In 1996, the Department of Energy was issuing reports on the
desirability of a pipeline through Afghanistan, and in 1998, Unocal
testified before the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific that
this pipeline was crucial to transport Caspian Basin oil to the Indian
Ocean.

Given this evidence that a military operation to secure at least a
portion of Afghanistan has been on the table, possibly as early as five
years ago, I can't help but conclude that the actions we are seeing put
into motion now are part of a pre-September 11th agenda. I'm absolutely
sure of that, in fact. The planning alone for operations, of this
scale, that are now taking shape, would take many months. And we are
seeing them take shape in mere weeks.

It defies common sense. This administration is lying about this whole
thing being a "reaction" to September 11th. That leads me, in short
order, to be very suspicious of their yet-to-be-provided evidence that
someone in Afghanistan is responsible. It's just too damn convenient.
Which also leads me to wonder-just for the sake of knowing-what
actually did happen on September 11th, and who actually is responsible.

The so-called evidence is a farce. The US presented Tony Blair's puppet
government with the evidence, and of the 70 so-called points of
evidence, only nine even referred to the attacks on the World Trade
Center, and those points were conjectural. This is a bullshit story
from beginning to end. Presented with the available facts, any 16-year
old with a liking for courtroom dramas could tear this story apart like
a two-dollar shirt. But our corporate press regurgitates it
uncritically. But then, as we should know by now, their role is to
legitimize.

This cartoon heavy they've turned bin Laden into makes no sense, when
you begin to appreciate the complexity and synchronicity of the
attacks. As a former military person who's been involved in the
development of countless operations orders over the years, I can tell
you that this was a very sophisticated and costly enterprise that would
have left what we call a huge "signature".

In other words, it would be very hard to effectively conceal.

So there's a real question about why there was no warning of this. That
can be a question about the efficacy of the government's intelligence
apparatus. That can be a question about various policies in the various
agencies that had to be duped to orchestrate this action. And it can
also be a question about whether or not there was foreknowledge of the
event, and that foreknowledge is being covered up. To dismiss this
concern out of hand as the rantings of conspiracy nuts is premature.
And there is a history of this kind of thing being done by national
political bosses, including the darling of liberals, Franklin
Roosevelt. The evidence is very compelling that the Roosevelt
Administration deliberately failed to act to stop Pearl Harbor in order
to mobilize enough national anger to enter the World War II.

I have no idea why people aren't asking some very specific questions
about the actions of Bush and company on the day of the attacks.

Follow along:

Four planes get hijacked and deviate from their flight plans, all the
while on FAA radar. The planes are all hijacked between 7:45 and 8:10
AM Eastern Daylight Time.

Who is notified?

This is an event already that is unprecedented. But the President is
not notified and going to a Florida elementary school to hear children
read.

By around 8:15 AM, it should be very apparent that something is
terribly wrong. The President is glad-handing teachers.

By 8:45, when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes into the World Trade
Center, Bush is settling in with children for his photo ops at Booker
Elementary. Four planes have obviously been hijacked simultaneously, an
event never before seen in history, and one has just dived into the
worlds best know twin towers, and still no one notifies the nominal
Commander in Chief.

No one has apparently scrambled any Air Force interceptors either.

At 9:03, United Flight 175 crashes into the remaining World Trade
Center building. At 9:05, Andrew Card, the Presidential Chief of Staff
whispers to George W. Bush. Bush "briefly turns somber" according to
reporters.

Does he cancel the school visit and convene an emergency meeting? No.

He resumes listening to second graders read about a little girl's pet
fucking goat, and continues this banality even as American Airlines
Flight 77 conducts an unscheduled point turn over Ohio and heads in the
direction of Washington DC.

Has he instructed Chief of Staff Card to scramble the Air Force? No.

An excruciating 25 minutes later, he finally deigns to give a public
statement telling the United States what they already have figured out;
that there's been an attack by hijacked planes on the World Trade
Center.

There's a hijacked plane bee-lining to Washington, but has the Air
Force been scrambled to defend anything yet? No.

At 9:30, when he makes his announcement, American Flight 77 is still
ten minutes from its target, the Pentagon.

The Administration will later claim they had no way of knowing that the
Pentagon might be a target, and that they thought Flight 77 was headed
to the White House, but the fact is that the plane has already flown
South and past the White House no-fly zone, and is in fact tearing
through the sky at over 400 nauts.

At 9:35, this plane conducts another turn, 360 degrees over the
Pentagon, all the while being tracked by radar, and the Pentagon is not
evacuated, and there are still no fast-movers from the Air Force in the
sky over Alexandria and DC.

Now, the real kicker: A pilot they want us to believe was trained at a
Florida puddle-jumper school for Piper Cubs and Cessnas, conducts a
well-controlled downward spiral, descending the last 7,000 feet in
two-and-a-half minutes, brings the plane in so low and flat that it
clips the electrical wires across the street from the Pentagon, and
flies it with pinpoint accuracy into the side of this building at 460
nauts.

When the theory about learning to fly this well at the puddle-jumper
school began to lose ground, itwas added that they received further
training on a flight simulator.

This is like saying you prepared your teenager for her first drive on
I-40 at rush hour by buying her a video driving game. It's horse shit!

There is a story being constructed about these events. My crystal ball
is not working today, so I can't say why.

But at the least, this so-called Commander-in-Chief and his staff that
we are all supposed to follow blindly into some ill-defined war on
terrorism is criminally negligent or unspeakably stupid. And at the
worst, if more is known or was known, and there is an effort to conceal
the facts, there is a criminal conspiracy going on.

Certainly, the Bush de facto administration was facing a confluence of
crises from which they were temporarily rescued by this event. Whether
they played a sinister role or not, there is little doubt that they
have at the very least opportunistically pounced on this attack to
overcome their lack of legitimacy, to shift the blame for the
encroaching recession from capitalism to the September 11th terror
attack, to legitimize their pre-existing foreign policy agenda, and to
establish and consolidate repressive measures domestically and silence
dissent. In many ways, September 11th pulled the Bush cookies out of
the fire.

And given them the green light to begin constructing a long-term
scenario within which to establish fascistic control measures at home
and abroad as a citadel for the ruling class in the catastrophic
conjuncture that we are entering based on the end of oil.

This elephant in the living room is being studiously ignored. In fact,
the domestic repression has already begun, officially and unofficially.
It's kind of a latter day McCarthyism. I participated in a teach-in at
Chapel Hill, North Carolina, on the 17th of September, and though not a
single person on the panel excused or justified the attacks, and every
person there offered either condolences and prayers for the victims, we
were excoriated within two days as "enemies of America." Yesterday an
op-ed called for my deportation (to where, one can only guess). Now
Herr Ashcroft is fast tracking the biggest abrogation of US civil
liberties since the so-called anti-terrorism legislation after the
Oklahoma City bombing - which by the way hasn't resulted in
anti-terrorism but in the acceleration of the application of the racist
death penalty. The FBI has defined terrorist groups not by whether any
given group has ever acted as terrorists, but by their beliefs. Some
socialists and anti-globalization groups have already been identified
by name as terrorist groups, even though there is not a single shred of
evidence that they have ever participated in any criminal activity. It
reminds me of the Smith Act that was finally declared unconstitutional,
but only after a hell of a lot of people served a hell of a long time
in jail for the crime of thinking.

I think this also points to yet another huge problems that the Bush
regime was facing. Worldwide resistance to the whole so-called
neoliberal agenda, which is a prettied up term for debt-leverage
imperialism. While debt and the threat of sanctions has been used to
coerce nations in the periphery, we have to understand that the final
guarantor of compliance remains military action. For a global economic
agenda, there is always a corresponding political and military agenda.

The focal point of these actions in the short term is Southern Asia,
but they have already scripted this as a worldwide and protracted fight
against terrorism.

It's far better than drug wars as a rationalization, and the drug war
thing was being discredited in any case. Leftists are regaining power
and popularity in Venezuela, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Colombia,
the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Brazil, and Argentina. Cuba has gained
immense prestige over the last few years. The empire is beginning to
unravel. We can hardly justify intervention in these places by saying
they are not towing the economic line by allowing the absolute
domination of their societies by transnational corporations. That
exposes the agenda. So we simply claim they are supporting terrorism.

It's for all these reasons I say the left has missed the boat on this
one, by allowing them to get away with rushing past the question of who
did what on September 11th. If the official story is a lie, and I think
the circumstantial case is strong enough to stay with this question,
then we really do need to know what happened. And we need to understand
concretely what the motives of this administration are.

And we need to understand more than just their immediate motives, but
where the larger social forces that underwrite our situation right now
are headed. I do not think this administration is engaged in the
deliberative process of a political grouping that is on top of their
game. They are putting together some very deliberative technical
solutions in response to a larger situation that it slipping rapidly
out of their control. Like clear cutting. There's a very smart
technology being employed to do a very dumb thing.

What they are responding to is not September 11th, but the beginning of
a permanent and precipitous decline in worldwide oil production, the
beginning of a deep and protracted worldwide recession, and the
unraveling of the empire.

This brings me to a point about what all this means for Americans'
security, which they are perfectly justified to worry about. The
actions being prepared by this administration will not only not enhance
our security, it will significantly degrade it. Military action against
many groups across the globe, which is what the administration is
telling us quite openly they are planning to do, will put a lot of
backs against the wall. That can't be very secure.

The concept of war being touted here is a violation of the principles
of war on several counts, and will inevitably lead to military
catastrophes, if you're inclined to view this from a position of moral
and political neutrality.

And the people who are now in possession of half the world's remaining
oil reserves are subject to destabilization for which we can't even
pretend to predict the consequences-but loss of access to critical
energy supplies is certainly within the realm of possibility. Worst of
all, we will be destabilizing Pakistan, a nuclear power in an active
conflict with its neighbor, and we will be provoking Russia, another
nuclear power. The security stakes don't get any higher, and Americans
can ill afford to ignore nukes.

And I think that this domestic agenda is a tremendous threat to the
security of anyone who is critical of the government or their corporate
financiers, and we already know that the real threats are against
populations that can easily be scapegoated as the domestic crisis
deepens.

There is a very real threat right now of creeping fascism in this
country, and that phenomenon requires its domestic enemies.
Historically those enemies have included leftists, trade unionists, and
racially and nationally oppressed sectors. This whole "state of
emergency" mentality is already being used to quiet the public
discourses of anti-racism, of feminism, of environmentalism, and of
both socialism and anarchism. And while there is token resistance by
officials to anti-Muslim xenophobia, the stereotypical images have
saturated the media, and the government is already beginning to openly
re-instate racial profiling. It is only a short step from there to go
after other groups. We have long been prepared by the ideologies of
overt and covert racism, and racism as both institution and
corresponding psychology in the United States is nearly intractable.

It's for all these reasons that I say emphatically that we can not
accept anything from this administration; not their policies nor their
bullshit stories. What they are doing is very, very dangerous, and the
time to fight back against them, openly, is right now, before they can
consolidate their power and their agenda. Once they have done that, our
job becomes much more difficult.

The left, if it has the capacity to self-organize out of its oblivion,
needs to understand its critical roles here. We have to play the role
of credible, hard-working, and non-sectarian partners in a broader
peace-movement. We have to study, synthesize, and describe our current
historical conjuncture. And we have to prepare leadership for the
decisive conflict that will emerge to first defeat fascism then take
political power.

Rosa Luxemburg's words are truer than ever right now. We are not faced
with a choice between socialism and capitalism, but socialism or
barbarism.

And what we can least afford are denial and timidity.

Stan Goff

I strongly recommend, for anyone who wants to find further background
material on the issues herein check out the websites at dieoff.org,
emperors-clothes.com, and globalcircle.net.

--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected
P.O. Box 181417, Cleveland, OH 44118 (fax 216-320-9528)
A subsidiary of:
The SubGenius Foundation, Inc. / P.O. Box 140306, Dallas, TX 75214
SubSITE: http://www.subgenius.com PRABOB
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: inigo@montoya.net (D. P. Roberts)

A Special Forces guy married the daughter of my best friend, and my
best friend married a military guy. My line of work brings me into
contact with a lot of ex-military guys and none of them are as wordy
and windy as this guy. Makes me wonder where it really came from.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Kevan Smith (The Battousai)" <cuthulu@shreve.net>

It may have originated in Pravda:

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/10/17/18410.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Rev. Magdalen" <magdalen@home.com>

Dude, we are SO screwed. Oh yah. The Left is going to throw off timidity
and defeat fascism. Fuck. If only I knew a skill useful enough to allow me
to become a citizen of Amsterdam. Maybe I can charge one them Oracle
courses to somebody else's credit card...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: andreux <andreux@eterna.net>
>
> It may have originated in Pravda:
> http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/10/17/18410.html

There are a few more articles of similar ilk
over at www.educate-yourself.org under Current
Events, all with the same theme:

1. the US gov't had prior knowledge of the attacks
on Sept. 11 (this has also been revealed in an
on-the-air interview with Alex Jones and David
Schippers.

http://educate-yourself.org/csnewattackofokc12oct01.html

And 2. that the goal of the push is a simple Globalist
Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario to allow for
Bush to install the Afghan oil pipeline.

-st. andreux

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: andreux <andreux@eterna.net>

"Rev. Magdalen" <magdalen@home.com> wrote in
news:YItC7.34892$pb4.17170415@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com:

> Dude, we are SO screwed. Oh yah. The Left is going to throw off
> timidity and defeat fascism. Fuck. If only I knew a skill useful
> enough to allow me to become a citizen of Amsterdam. Maybe I can
> charge one them Oracle courses to somebody else's credit card...

Nope. Oracle will be the database choice of the
New World Order... if that National ID card thing
goes through.

-st. andreux
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>

In article <Xns91475072BBC33andreuxeternanet@24.178.111.66>, andreux
<andreux@eterna.net> wrote:

> There are a few more articles of similar ilk
> over at www.educate-yourself.org under Current
> Events, all with the same theme:
>
> 1. the US gov't had prior knowledge of the attacks
> on Sept. 11 (this has also been revealed in an
> on-the-air interview with Alex Jones and David
> Schippers.
>
> http://educate-yourself.org/csnewattackofokc12oct01.html

"Never ascribe to conspiracy and artifice,
when greed and stupidity completely suffice."

It doesn't really rhyme when you say it out loud, but it gets the point
across. Dubya is a moron. Well, not technically, but he's not bright.
His actions on and since 911 are entirely consistent with the reactions
of a none-too-bright person trying to cope with something he really
doesn't understand.

I also agree with a prior poster in that this essay was not written by
a former Special Forces member who also taught at West Point. It is,
bluntly, not good enough.

> And 2. that the goal of the push is a simple Globalist
> Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario to allow for
> Bush to install the Afghan oil pipeline.

That ain't going to happen. The Afghans are simply too nasty to allow
it. Unless they guard every blinkin' foot of it, somebody with a
high-powered rifle, like that fellow who shot a hole in the Alaskan
Pipeline, will be perforating it every ten minutes. There are a *lot*
of RPG's and other nastiness in Afghanistan, too.

He's dead on about the oil crisis - I've mentioned it before, and
neither he nor I can take any credit for noticing it. Other than that,
it's a lot of he-said, she-said, and it doesn't really scare me so much
as bore me.

St. Marc

--
St. Marc the Perpetually Amused
Disciple of Eris
Between .sig's

http://www.templeoferis.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>

In article <3be24dbe.11082967@news.earthlink.net>, D. P. Roberts
<inigo@montoya.net> wrote:

>
> A Special Forces guy married the daughter of my best friend, and my
> best friend married a military guy. My line of work brings me into
> contact with a lot of ex-military guys and none of them are as wordy
> and windy as this guy. Makes me wonder where it really came from.

Oh, there are lots of windbags in the military. But you are right to
wonder where it came from. For all we know it could be pure propaganda
written by a clever Saudi Arabian terrorist. For all we know, Time
Magazine is controlled by the same people who control parts of our
government, or by the same people who profit from weapons
manufacturing. You have to wonder where ANYTHING came from these days.

But, NOW is the time to do the wondering and double-checking.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack

In article <3bdac342$0$35574$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com>, St. Marc the
Perpetually Amused <disciple@templeoferis.org> wrote:

>
> He's dead on about the oil crisis - I've mentioned it before, and
> neither he nor I can take any credit for noticing it. Other than that,
> it's a lot of he-said, she-said, and it doesn't really scare me so much
> as bore me.

I just don't *KNOW*!!! I just don't *KNOW* anymore!! ((Stang clutches
head in frustration, Anxiety Lines emanate.))

((Next panel -- no dialog, Stang at window looking out, worried
expression on face. Dramatic backlighting, maybe reflection of
residential street on window glass.))

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>

In article <bcnktt4a9uc64upubdge3st3mlvl6hv6sf@4ax.com>, The Battousai
<cuthulu@shreve.net> wrote:

>
> It may have originated in Pravda:
>

Well, that pretty much kicks the ladder out from under THAT bucket of
paint.

Having been printed in Pravda doesn't necessarily invalidate something,
but it sure helps.

Its having been on alt.slack should pretty much kill it for good.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: andreux <andreux@eterna.net>

You'd be surprised. Check out english.pravda.ru.
Not all of it is Pulitzer Prize material, of course,
but on occasion you can run across the odd decently
written opinion column or what-have-you...

Loads of fun for a Sunday morning read next to
Newsweek.

-st. andreux

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com>

Rev. Ivan Stang wrote:

>
> Its having been on alt.slack should pretty much
> kill it for good.
>

*You* are going to believe something written by
a "Stan Goff"?

Geez, next you'll believe something written by
"J. Rebobdobbs"

--
*
"Because you know you've encouraged the racism here
soley for personal gain ("This'll be GREAT for the
website and the Stark Fist!"), and you're feeling
the twinges of your long-atrophied conscience."
--Kevan something-or-other
*
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "St. Marc the Perpetually Amused" <disciple@templeoferis.org>
Newsgroups: alt.slack

> ((Next panel -- no dialog, Stang at window looking out, worried
> expression on face. Dramatic backlighting, maybe reflection of
> residential street on window glass.))

Hey! Masterpiece Theatre is on SUNDAY night. Stop messing with the TV
schedule! Time Control is all well and good, but some things are not
to be trifled with.

--
St. Marc the Perpetually Amused
Disciple of Eris
Between .sig's

http://www.templeoferis.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Alliekatt" <alleykatzen@hotmail.com>

"Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com> wrote in message
news:271020011356265228%stang@subgenius.com...

> I just don't *KNOW*!!! I just don't *KNOW* anymore!! ((Stang clutches
> head in frustration, Anxiety Lines emanate.))
>
> ((Next panel -- no dialog, Stang at window looking out, worried
> expression on face. Dramatic backlighting, maybe reflection of
> residential street on window glass.))

I think that all of this drama among the humans over race and war and rights
and oppression and death, are all ways of keeping themselves from getting
bored.

I sit and watch them scream and shoot and pledge and fight and dictate and
cry out to the gods for mercy. And I laugh because there are no gods and
there is no mercy, only the humans pretending that it is all real.

But it is boring to live life without drama. And when you pick the drama
suddenly there are 10,000 levels of insidious conspiracy and multiple plots.
6 billion channels to choose from. Might as well even pick the occasional
side and play the game. Me like watch hockey fights. Get chance to jump in
rumble and break teeth and laugh at bleeding player who thinks it all
personal like.

Then get bored, walk away from middle of game and confuse everybody. If
there is a new mccarthyism or a massive oil conspiracy or rights
legislation, it simply gives me a new platform from which I can fuck with
humans on some level.

I think that means that I'm on my side.

But I like your channel, I'll keep watching your show anyhow. It's well
edited and the soundtrack is excellent.

alliekatt
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: iDRMRSR <alex.i.thymia@depression.org>

>>snip original post<<

This post is too long. Please post shorter scary war shit. Thank you.

[*]
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>

In article <3BDB0989.E00@succeeds.com>, nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com>
wrote:

>
> *You* are going to believe something written by
> a "Stan Goff"?

HAR! I hadn't even noticed that.

If I needed a fake funny name, "Stang Off" or I mean "Stan Goff" would
be just perfect.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: wbarwell@starbase.neosoft.com (William Barwell)

>Oh, there are lots of windbags in the military. But you are right to
>wonder where it came from. For all we know it could be pure propaganda
>written by a clever Saudi Arabian terrorist. For all we know, Time
>Magazine is controlled by the same people who control parts of our
>government, or by the same people who profit from weapons
>manufacturing. You have to wonder where ANYTHING came from these days.
>
Robert Perry was for some years an investigative reporter for Newsweek
who finally quit in disgust and found the now defunct I.F. Magazine.
He found that many of his hardest hitting newstories were being
spiked by his editors, and many that were printed were watered down
pretty heavily. Why?
Basically, those who controlled the corporation Newsweek
was part of were indeed part and parcel on the
industrial/military/government complex. The heads of the corporation
were golfing buddies with the president and vice-president and part and
parcel of the corporate daisy chain of CEOs and board members
of the Dow Jones 500.

It IS a conspiracy, not of evil cackling monsters, but of ignorant,
smarmy, buttscratching, golfing, heavy drinking, corrupt, money
grubbing good ol' boys. As Huey would put it, ugly old white men.
All adverse to boat rocking and their arms bend easily.

So of course, all the really bad shit will be not reported on, or
whitewashed and placed on page 8 of section three where the
nosepickers won't find it as they throw away the business
section to get to the large and gaudy sports section.

As Perry found, they all protect their collective butts
and income. You expose politics for what it is, you are
out of the club, you don't get to schmooze with teh pres,
and you ads drop until the CEO and board decides they need
a new editor.

Its that simple.

That's why you should drop that sub to Slime, Newsweak,
ect and get a subscription to New Republic, Mother Jones, The Nation,
Texas Observer, F.A.I.R., or other small print outlets that
don't play the schmooze game and will tell the truth.

TOO BAD YOU SUCKERS DIDN'T SUPPORT I.F. MAGAZINE AND NOW
IT'S GONE!

And Time still ranbles on, downplaying the lies
and atrocities and stupidities of our government.

Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope of Houston
Slack!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wbarwell@starbase.neosoft.com (William Barwell)
Newsgroups: alt.slack

In article <Xns914750A4CA9CBandreuxeternanet@24.178.111.66>,
andreux <andreux@eterna.net> wrote:
>"Rev. Magdalen" <magdalen@home.com> wrote in
>news:YItC7.34892$pb4.17170415@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com:
>
>> Dude, we are SO screwed. Oh yah. The Left is going to throw off
>> timidity and defeat fascism. Fuck. If only I knew a skill useful
>> enough to allow me to become a citizen of Amsterdam. Maybe I can
>> charge one them Oracle courses to somebody else's credit card...
>
> Nope. Oracle will be the database choice of the
> New World Order... if that National ID card thing
> goes through.

That's OK. Its better to be a man inside the tent
pissing out (and getting paid for it) than a man in outside
the tent pissing in (and getting arrested for it).

Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope of Houston
Slack!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Rev. Squid Kid" <ask@ma.ultranet.com>

Amen to all that. My mother still thinks that Slime is the end-all and be-
all of journalism. She used to always renew my subscription as a Xmas
present, until I finally got it through her head that I don't actually
regard them as the pinnacle of reporting.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Col. Sphinx Drummond" <sphinx@subgenius.com>

scabs wrote:

> >
> >Its that simple.
>
> yuh. It is. No doubt about it.

Well, it's the audiences fault for buying crap. All of these news outlets are
most interested in the bottom-line. They sell the shit their readers buy.

-Col. Sphinx Drummond TWSR
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: opalpeacok@aol.com.de.it (Salacia the Overseer)

<< I think that all of this drama among the humans over race and war and rights
and oppression and death, are all ways of keeping themselves from getting
bored. >>

Assuming that the humans are smart enough and well fed enough to be bored, I
agree with this post.

Congratulations on getting married! I vote for no cake smashing. There's
time-a-plenty for that later.

Headmiftreff falacia the Overfeer
Branch falacians
Director of Programming, Keeper of the feven fqueals, Hainted, Tainted, & Befet
by Devylf
Dia de lof Muertof Fiefta Oct 27, 2001-Chicago Athenaeum
http://www.members.aol.com/opalpeacok/TheCompound.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Rev. Magdalen" <magdalen@home.com>

"Alliekatt" <alleykatzen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LRDC7.2221$hX3.159556@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
<snip a bunch of "oh, all this doesn't bother ME, I'm ABOVE all that and
think all this so-called reality is just amusing diversion, a veil of maya
so to speak.>

I seem to recall some really great book somewhere saying that that attitude
was all well and good until reality SMACKS YOU UPSIDE THE HEAD with a blunt
object. There IS a reason why it matters which particular conspiracy theory
is true, and the reason is that one theory means concentration camps for
dissenters and the other theory means no concentration camps for dissenters.
You are a dissenter. Resistance will be futile. They have WAYS of knocking
the smirk off your face.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Alliekatt" <alleykatzen@hotmail.com>

Well, it's human nature to take it all personally. I take reality personal
sometimes, screaming on wheels of plutonium-enriched razor wire, to get the
chance to smack back and draw lots of memetic blood. Then afterward I sit
down and ignore it until it tries to smack me again. Just because I choose
not to painfully and obsessively dwell on issues, conspiracies, and
implications, doesn't mean I won't kick ass when it's necessary.

The conspiracies do certainly exist, as dramatic machinations and
manipulations of physical and ideological obsessions, all based in personal
survival at any cost. Gross instinct for survival, screaming for grinding,
repetitive worry and obsession, is still not, and never has been, any
possible home for the dwelling of my happiness. By many other definitions,
the transcension of that concern is also the distinction of sentience.
Survival is a set of mechanized chores that deserve no more concern than the
pleasure of simple maintenance, like the satisfaction of cleaning my room.
Thus, if I have to throw grenades at concentration camps, I will at least
try to do it happily.

alliekatt
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>

In article
<D6B626609977A104.082245C2F338A9D3.995C24DE2667B97D@lp.airnews.net>,
William Barwell <wbarwell@starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:

> >
> Robert Perry was for some years an investigative reporter for Newsweek
> who finally quit in disgust and found the now defunct I.F. Magazine.
> He found that many of his hardest hitting newstories were being
> spiked by his editors, and many that were printed were watered down
> pretty heavily. Why?
> Basically, those who controlled the corporation Newsweek
> was part of were indeed part and parcel on the
> industrial/military/government complex. The heads of the corporation
> were golfing buddies with the president and vice-president and part and
> parcel of the corporate daisy chain of CEOs and board members
> of the Dow Jones 500.

I had a good friend who was a typesetter for TIME. She was the last
person to tweak the articles for errors on their way to the printing
machines. She quit because it bothered her so much that the TOP GUYS
would come down to her cubicle at the LAST MINUTE and make changes,
rather critical ones like changing from "the Russians suggested" to
"the Russians demanded", stuff like that.

>
> That's why you should drop that sub to Slime, Newsweak,
> ect and get a subscription to New Republic, Mother Jones, The Nation,
> Texas Observer, F.A.I.R., or other small print outlets that
> don't play the schmooze game and will tell the truth.

Now here's the scary part. I had friends (not friends actually, but a
relative) at The Nation, and I wrote stuff for New Republic. And THE
SAME BULLSHIT GOES ON AT THOSE PAPERS regarding putting a last minute
MAJOR SPIN on the facts. And not even in reverse. Sometimes its the
same lie. I would not trust those left wing fucks any more than i would
trust the right wing fucks. All either side cares about is proving they
were right to begin with. They're all Pink on the inside.

And I don't even have any BETTER suggestions. PHOOEY on all of it.

I avoided all the Lies for 2 years... now that I'm forced back into it
I'm doing what I always did, skimming all outlets for all the lies I
can get my claws on, and now with a cable modem, that's a lot of
fuckin' lies.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>

In article <3bdb4eb2$0$9826$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, headkase
<woggurl@optusnospamnet.com.au> wrote:

> Ha!
>
> (forwarded from alt.slack)
>
> heres some more alternative propaganda for ya
>
> want to really know what has happened? then follow the money they say
>
>

Now I'm not so sure I should have spread that article around... no one
seems to be able to locate this Stan Goff guy (no relation to Stang
Off, incidentally) and one of the places the article is found is
PRAVDA, the Russian official news outlet. As much as I distrust U.S.
news, I distrust THEIRS a LOT more.

I keep thinking, "YAH, it's like a crazy sci fi movie, the Bushes and
the bin ladens are actually working TOGETHER to fool us ALL...
according to what this person is saying..." But then I look a little
deeper and discover that the same person also says he's The Twelfth
David of Philadelphia, the Keeper of the LightWay, or some such shit.

This particular hour, I doubt that the Bush administration and their
FRIENDS are SO EEE-VILE that they would totally subvert democracy just
in order to take over the world. But, this particular hour, I'm
inclined to say, "EVEN IF THEY WERE, SO WHAT?? Wouldn't that be the
NATURAL, SENSIBLE, LOGICAL thing to do, if one were an educated
all-powerful rich person looking out upon an overpopulated world
plunging into chaos and madness? At least I live inside the Death Star,
and not down there on that pathetic planet they're about to OBLITERATE.
And this Storm Trooper suit they gave me has its own built-in a.c. and
a better stereo than the one in my car!"

I kind of go back and forth between terror and panic, you might say.
I'd much rather live under Pharoah bin Bush than Pharoah bin Laden.
They're BOTH crazy zillionairres that want to take over the world, but
I have to side with the Conspiracy that allows miniskirts. Sort of like
when they give you those TWO WHOLE CHOICES to vote for, for President
or School Board or whatnot.

Sure, under the Bush regime I might have to get a HAIRCUT to qualify
for entry into the strip joints, but under the other regime I wouldn't
even be allowed to GET a haircut OR enter the strip joint.

MOOLAH, NOT MULLAHS! BOMBS NOT RACISM! LOVE THAT WAR! FREE THAT
SLAVERY! WORK THAT SLACK! FUCK SEX, KILL DEATH and REFUND TAXES!

Actually I'm horribly confused by all the reality outside my little
box, and have no plan at all currently. I'm afraid that Dr. Drummond is
right -- you can bitch and moan all you want, but the biggest meanest
lion in the jungle is gonna get what he wants, and that's the way it
is. To quote that old Swingin' Love Corpses hymn, "NATURE -- I HATE
IT!"

You know, Dr. Moreau found that the Devil was just a tiresome strand of
DNA, some useless heredity that was just holding back all life. He
could have fixed things. And you fuckers KILLED him! You KILLED THE
FATHER!! YOU BROKE THE LAW!

Eh, phooey -- maybe four legs ARE better.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: SCARY WAR SHIT
From: iDRMRSR <alex.i.thymia@depression.org>

Four legs, three nostrils, six loooong penii, and three rows of nipples
(front AND back), is even BETTERRER!!!

[*]
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Original file name: SCARY WAR SHIT - converted on Thursday, 20 December 2001, 03:31